bouncing boehner. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews up in boston. let me start tonight with this. this weekends with john boehner being dribbled along the court like an ohio state basketball. he bounces up and says he has a deal with democrats. he hits the floor again because some right winger yells something nasty. why is this guy so unable to do what will make him a profile? isn't there better ways to end your career than being bounced around by people you don't respect? aren't there? i have faith in this country.

darn it, i have faith in politics. i believe democracy works. i believe good people can come to agreement and stop taking cheap, stupid shots at each other. okay, didn't work once. it took us to civil war. but that was about a real disagreement. slavery. it was regional, it was economic, it was historical. it was, after all we came to know, moral. this is a over a law the congress passed, that the president of the united states signed, the supreme court of the united states declared constitutional. it's isn't a sign of weakness for boehner to say when he gets up in the morning we're going back to the original system? sorry crazies, we're going to go back to the law and move on. jonathan martin, you're chuckling, but it's so sad. it's so sad because all he has to do is say regular order, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to do what we've always done. enforce a law we wrote and the president signed.

>> and he would probably invite a challenge to his speakership if he was to do that. i think the more likely scenario, chris, at this point given we're a few days into the shutdown and the debt ceiling is looming here in a matter of a couple of weeks is that speaker boehner will try to merge the debt ceiling vote with the vote to keep the government -- or get the government to reopen. and then try to extract some kind of a sweetener from the democrats so he has some cover to sell it to his members. and then bring up one vote. it's a lot easier for boehner to make his members take one vote on this than it is to do two separate votes on both the cr to get the government back open and also to raise the debt ceiling. >> jonathan, that's good news. i mean, it sounds to me like he understands the stakes. that he understands the president himself will not buckle to a short-term deal on

the cr and then have to face another compromise on the debt. i think it's good. jonathan capehart, i'm going to call you mr. martin and mr. capehart to keep things straight. mr. martin, sir, i mean mr. capehart, doesn't that sound like he might be willing to break with the crazies? i mean the 30 or 40 bench out there that wants to say no just because they hate obama. >> well, i mean, i hope you're right. i hope your sense of optimism turns out to be right. but as we've seen time and time again, that sort of vocal minority within speaker boehner's majority, never seems to be satisfied. it seems every time he tries to do something that is the right thing to do for the country, they slap him back. and what's unfortunate is that he buckles to them. so i'll be -- i will be curious to see -- >> have you figured out why? have you figured out why? if he's got people on his side,

why does he buckle to 30? >> i don't understand it. i really don't. i mean our colleague here dana milbank has taken to calling him spokesman because he's following his caucus instead of leading them. and i don't mean -- actually, i do mean to compare speaker boehner to speaker pelosi, but if the shoes were flipped and this was speaker pelosi's house, there's no way she would have a vocal minority in her majority telling her what to do. >> let me bring it back to jonathan martin. go ahead, jonathan. >> i was going to say i don't think i'm being -- i'm not trying to suggest that the conservative hardliners in the house would be pleased with one vote on to open the cr back up and raise the debt ceiling. i think it would make them less angry. there's no good options for

boehner given his own politics right now. i do think rolling two tough votes into one and hoping to get some type of a face-saving measure, be that the medical device tax or something to throw in there and schedule one vote on the house floor is probably the better of some bad scenarios to the speaker. >> sounds right to me too. that one. although it does get to the body of the health care bill. in an interview with nbc's casey hunt today, ted cruz levied a wild accusation. let's listen. >> the position of the democrats is remarkable. they want 100%. that's why we're facing this shutdown. because their position is extreme. >> i don't know what to make of that. cruz has been the part of the tea party shutdown. take a listen to this twisted logic when he then was specifically asked about a default. >> no rational person supports a default. we should never default on the debt.

the democrats want government by crisis. they want shutdowns. this is harry reid's shutdown because he thinks it benefits democrats politically. and they want to threaten a default to scare people. it's how we've gotten a $17 trillion national debt. they believe it furthers their partisan interest to scare the american people. under no circumstances should we default on our debt. and it is irresponsible of president obama and harry reid to suggest otherwise. >> jonathan martin, i'm pretty good at following people when they talk. i mean, i can't follow that. he's saying under no circumstances he implies i support a default. then he says the other side is using scare tactics. yet he's holding them to the threat he will default. is there any sense to that? you got to define this stuff objectively. where's the objective statement there you can track? >> well, he's trying to place the blame on what's happening and what may happen in the future on the democrats.

he's fighting from a defensive posture because he's trying to push back on this notion that he and he alone is responsible for the fact that the government is shut down. so he and a lot of his colleagues are trying to spin this so put the shoe on senator reid and president obama. where this really gets interesting, though, is more the debt ceiling. it's one thing for ted cruz to have the shutdown on their hands. nobody wants a debt ceiling collapse on their hands. >> do you think -- can you report now or inlize the fact he seems to be responding in that interview for the first time there to the heat the republican establishment is putting on the politicians here? i mean the house republicans

especially, but both of them that they cannot bring down our american economy and call themselves americans. there he is for the first time pushing back against default. whereas before, that's the thing he wanted to put the obama care stuff right on. not the cr, the debt ceiling. the debt ceiling, targeted it. i think he's moved back a bit according to the piece on the front page is what i'm talking about. >> look, i think he is trying to suggest to republicans there, too, you might not like me or my tactics, but i don't want to see the country default either. i think you are right. it's also a message to the more establishment folks in his own party. >> jonathan martin, sir, great pieces. jonathan capehart. coming up, what was it about? an end run around democracy? president obama was elected when he promised to do it and reelected when he did it. remember the caught on tape moment of kentucky senators

calculating the best way to spin shutting down the government? well, kentucky's democratic governor says opponents should get over it. obama care is going to help poor people. why would you oppose to the government shutdown as ted cruz, the campaign for him? it happened near washington, d.c. finally, sleeping on the job. here is george holding on the house floor yesterday. maybe he was worn out by the shutdown debate and heard enough from the birther, louie gomer. i don't blame him having to sit through that stuff. this is "hardball," the place for politics. u flo? yes. is this the thing you gave my husband? well, yeah, yes. the "name your price" tool. you tell us the price you want to pay, and we give you a range of options to choose from. careful, though -- that kind of power can go to your head. that explains a lot. yo, buddy! i got this. gimme one, gimme one, gimme one!

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welcome back to "hardball."

if there's one quote that explains the mess we are in, it's this one from an aid to mike lee. quote, the minority of the minority of the senate gop is going to run things until our leadership gets back gown. the republicans are tearing apart the u.s. government and threatening the economic security. in a solutional request to up end a law they don't like. thomas freeman urged president obama for the sake of american democracy not to give into them. quote, what is at stake in this government shutdown forced by a radical tea party minority is nothing less than the principal of which we are based, majority rule. insulated from the roles of a system, if we do not defend those rules, namely majority rule and the fact that if you don't like a policy passed by congress and signed by the president and affirmed by the

supreme court, you have to go out and win an election to overturn it. you can't put a fiscal gun to the country's head. well said by thomas friedman. cynthia tucker is a visiting professor from the university of georgia. they say it comes down to the need to compromise. they don't like the law. let's get together and find a middle ground. we are going kill the thing you did legally, constitutionally, whatever and agree to kill half of it. i think king solomon pointed out about that. here he is. >> we started out with a position we don't want any obama care. it's what we believe. it's bad for the country. the president wants all of it, 100%. i would think a compromise is both sides come off their position. >> the house republicans have acted reasonably and resonsably to act on two principles. the government should be funded

and the american people should get relief from obama care. we have repeatedly made reasonable and responsible compromises. >> i think it is indefensible that president obama and harry reid have forced a government shutdown. the reason we have a government shutdown is they are refusing to compromise and refusing to negotiate. >> is there a new acting school in washington? i mean seriously, this is the method acting. how do you convince yourself, even, that a law that's been passed by supreme court three years old and is about to be implemented, but you have a light to slice it in half or destroy it because of what? remember the dictators, i'm not naming any. what's mine is mine and what's yours is gaucnegotiable. david? >> it strikes me as an invasion of the body snatchers. they are reading from the same script. if they sound reasonable, the

public is fooled thinking they are not the unreasonable ones trying to destroy government and put us into default because they have having a tantrum over a law that was passed and confirmed by a conservative led supreme court. that's what it boils down to. we are going to see whether barack obama is going to keep to the position he's had. two years ago, in the 2011 debt ceiling fight, he did negotiate and did deal to get the best deal possible to keep the economy from going over a cliff, pushed over a cliff by the republicans. >> what did he teach us by doing that? >> he resolved he wouldn't let this happen again. we are going to see who is right at the end of the day. >> i'm looking at the face of ted cruz. cynthia? i'm looking at that face. he's either an actor or somehow, he always has that sad eyed look

like i have been let down by my mommy or daddy or country. it's another sign that indicates the dick toreial mind. they are always good at that. this guy acts like it's been somehow, he's been screwed, if you will. because a bill was passed and agreed to by congress. it somehow hurt his sensibilities. what do you think of this guy? who is he? >> i think ted cruz was promoted and elected to office by a faction of the republican party, that small minority, that tea party faction and he is beholden to them and to himself. you remember, ted cruz is out for ted cruz more than anybody else. he believes the best way, he's ambitious. he wants to be president. the best way he can to make a

name for himself is to continue to promote the crazy ideas of the tea party faction that put him in office in the first place. never mind if it brings down the country. never mind for that matter, if it threatens the whole global economy. ted cruz is all about ted cruz. >> let me go here now. somehow many republicans think they are winning here, like him, despite the poll that is show americans blame them, the republicans, for the shutdown and the fighting going on now. a congressman said there's pain and suffering, but i don't think that compares to the pain and suffering of being stuck with a lifetime of obama care. itis why i'm holding firm on this. this is michele bachmann on fox. let's watch her in action. >> we will continue to hold on. ultimately, the republicans are the conservatives going to work together to push back obama

care. we are energized today. we are very strong. this is about the happiest i have seen members in a long time because we see that we are starting to win this dialogue on a national level. >> what do you make? you are laughing there. what is this body building? it's like a subjective therapy we are going through. if we fight this law, we are going to somehow become stronger people. it's made it all worth it for the country? >> remember, michele bachmann thought she was going to end up as president. what she thinks about reality doesn't have a baring upon reality. i read a book about tip o'neil and ronald reagan. >> i know it well. >> you know it well. they had major league fights and battles. when tip lost, as he did in the last year a couple times, you know, he put it aside and on the tax cuts, he waited. a year or so later, the tax cuts

reagan passed were creating deficits and he came back and said we have to do something about this and forced reagan to compromise that is led to raising taxes. >> rather than cutting social security. rather than cutting social security is what reagan wanted to do. >> obama care, we have to get rid of it first? wait a minute. there is going to be a problem. if it is going to crash the economy, then you have to come back and say, see, we were right, they were wrong. let's do something about it. if reality has given us that point, then the american people vote more for republicans and will come rallying behind michele bachmann and the yahoos. not now. >> try prohibition for a decade, it didn't work. we got rid of it. they are afraid people are going to like it. i wish we had more time.

>> they are afraid people are going to like it, chris. that's the reason they are fighting so hard to shut it down. >> i'm with you. thank you very much. have a nice weekend, if you can. you have to show up, but we are not going to pay you. it's not going to last long with the tsa guys and women checking our luggage. i want them to be happy, not angry. thank you david and cynthia. up next, sleeping on the job. what's got this congressman snoozing away? i think he's got a good case. the birther was talking, better not heard. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] marie callender's knows all white meat chicken was made to be blanketed in golden breadcrumbs. with whipped mashed potatoes, topped with a thick homemade gravy. so she makes her country fried chicken to be eaten together. so they savor every last bite. marie callender's.

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time for the sideshow. it's been a long, tense week for washington with congress working overtime lawmakers playing political games over the shutdown and yesterday's car chase.

republican representative george holding of north carolina was feeling worn out last night. as you may have seen, cameras caught him snoozing during louie gohmert's lengthy speech. i sympathize for the guy asleep, not the guy talking. he may have to carry that small embarrassment for awhile, the congressman joins the ranks of many other politician who is have been caught nodding off. to commemorate his now-famous slumber, we've put together a montage of other great political naps. let's take a look. >> it's about trying to do what's right for the whole country. and if your heart doesn't -- ♪ [ snoring ] ♪

>> and if your heart doesn't break when you read these stories -- >> don't you love it the way the guy wakes up and realizes he's on camera? finally, the republican governor of pennsylvania tom corbett has ignited a controversy after trying to back track which likened gay marriage to underage marriage. in doing so, the governor then made it worse by comparing same-sex marriage to incest. there's an old one. listen to how that played out at the local cbs station up at harrisburg. >> there was a controversial remark made by a member of your legal team comparing gay marriage to the union of 12-year-olds saying both are illegal. which you called inappropriate. >> it was an inappropriate analogy. you know, i think a much better analogy would have been brother and sister, don't you? >> i don't know. i don't know.

i'm going to leave the comments to you and your team. >> that was a safe response by the interviewers from cbs. i don't know, i don't know. i'm going to leave that to you. that's "hardball." thanks for being with us. up next is "your business" with j.j. ramberg. but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel. the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are or may become pregnant or are breast-feeding, should not use androgel.

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